tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2110306069817949473.post1597625780065025804..comments2024-03-23T10:46:37.375+11:00Comments on Autumn Write: The Absence SueAndrea K Hösthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01535131780314094508noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2110306069817949473.post-54458435645383055942015-09-04T04:59:53.770+10:002015-09-04T04:59:53.770+10:00I do not think you understood the term of Mary Sue...I do not think you understood the term of Mary Sue completly. To understand it, you'll need to dig into character development and storytelling not only from the position of an enthusiastic writer, but also look upon it from a professional side. For example, Sues (and yes, also their male one) set themselfs as the center of everything. Not on a protagonist term that would allow you at least to connect with the character and all the characters that surrounds and interacts with it, but morelike using everything else around the Sue-Character to let her shine alone. A well-written protagonist would allow any other character around it at least shine with it in the same way the protagonist does itself. also, letting shine others more than the protagonist does from time to time.<br />because this is how you interact with people you respect and care for in real life, too: you help them without forcing your help and opinion onto them, help them to rise and shine and to be happy- but still let them decide whether they they feel like to be in need of your help and advice or not.<br /><br />A Sueish character does not have that kind of respect: ignoring the personality of every other mate that's close to her, warping personalities and reality around the way how it pleases the protagonist and forcing itself onto everyone else, getting still respected and loved by everybody in the story (even if you have the urge to punch that person into its face if you'd met him/her in real life).<br />A Sueish character forces its way into the head of the ready instead respectfully introducing itself and leave the judgement onto the reader alone if its worth to be loved or not. It DEMANDS to be loved and uses the reader to be part of the enjoyment the author kept him-/herself during writing the story. You're not part of the story. you're not even respectfully invited in it. you're brought their by force- and it's not a good one.<br /><br />Being an outstanding person doesn't make a character a Sueish character. narcissm and disrespect for every other character does. <br /><br />Imagne yourself as a person with a specific skin tone or eyecolor and I would come to you and call yourself a sue or fake- how'd you react? you would most likely call me a racist and demand I'd treat you in a respectful way as the person you are- and you'd had every right to do so! So why is it okay to treat characters in an inappropriative way? Because they are not real?<br />If we do not respect the characters- or only our character alone- we will create most likely a Sueish character.<br /><br />Being outstanding doesn't. Being strong doesn't. Having unusual physicial character traits doesn't. Disrespecting and narcissm does. <br /><br />So take heart: do not look upon a Sueish character by the looks or traits. Try to respect that character and see if he or she will response to that respect or ever respected you and all the other characters in the first place. If so, you're not having a Sueish character at all; you're having the friend you can share an adventure with.Lotusdrachehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09904735244391302522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2110306069817949473.post-8637636102258395012014-02-18T09:50:25.517+11:002014-02-18T09:50:25.517+11:00Self-inserts have spread to appear in all manner o...Self-inserts have spread to appear in all manner of stories (as I said, I'm sure there's _some_ Powerpuff girls fanfic with self-inserts). I personally think the distortional aspects of the Sue are one of the most important points: that she is like a mini black hole dragging all the attention from all the other characters.<br /><br />But then, I also don't think that characters in their own stories should be called Sues. Because then the plot focus is where it belongs: they're the hero of their own story. And, if, say Katniss is called a Sue (I've seen that), then so is Jason Bourne and James Bond. Original stories with impossibly heroic main characters are simply a sub-set of storytelling and the challenge there is not to make them less heroic, but to continue to have an interesting story, and have the audience continue to like the character despite them being 'shaken, not stirred' (Anita Blake being an example of this generally failing).Andrea K Hösthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01535131780314094508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2110306069817949473.post-56043166850441112002014-02-18T02:18:11.002+11:002014-02-18T02:18:11.002+11:00Counterpoint: self inserts in the Mass Effect univ...Counterpoint: self inserts in the Mass Effect universe, which does have a large number of interesting female characters who are given things to do. Martin Wissehttp://cloggie.org/wissewords2/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2110306069817949473.post-88291209854081268732014-02-17T22:13:05.425+11:002014-02-17T22:13:05.425+11:00Andrea,
The history of "Mary Sue" is pr...Andrea,<br /><br />The history of "Mary Sue" is pretty interesting, especially given that a term invented by an editor of a Trek fanzine in 1978 to describe a very specific kind of character turning up in fan-fic (and with a lot of people at the time suggesting it really wasn't a common trope in fan-fic at all) has somehow morphed into a term for any kind of hyper-competent character in any kind of writing, even big-budget studio movies.<br /><br />I suspect that you're onto something. The new Trek movies fit: all the main characters are hyper-competent, but only one of them is a woman and she gets one small scene to demonstrate her competence before being relegated for the rest of the movie to fretting over the safety of her boyfriend.Chris Lawsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2110306069817949473.post-48005689889787031402014-02-17T06:34:12.344+11:002014-02-17T06:34:12.344+11:00There have been plenty of strong female characters...There have been plenty of strong female characters on Doctor Who. The balance shifts with various reincarnations, but very often the show is as much interested in the companion's story as the Doctor's.<br /><br />There's been strong male characters too (and by strong, I mean, someone who actually has a personality, as opposed to just being there so the Doctor can show how wonderful the Doctor is).Andrea K Hösthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01535131780314094508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2110306069817949473.post-43601134634195477882014-02-17T01:36:42.446+11:002014-02-17T01:36:42.446+11:00I had always pictured "Mary Sue" as a ba...I had always pictured "Mary Sue" as a badly written overly competent authorial self-insertion into fan fic, but you do have a point about Absence Sue in shows like "Star Trek" and books like "Lord of the Rings," which leads to fan fic with female characters. It's a fascinating insight. Thanks for pointing it out. It's true that not every female character is a Mary Sue and I'll be reading those stories more carefully from now on.<br /><br />I have to respectfully disagree with you about "Doctor Who," however, because it is, basically, a show about one man. My impression is that the reason there is no strong female character is the same reason there is no strong second male character. It's a show with one protagonist and an ever-changing cast of sidekicks, and often prone to Marty Stu fan fics as often as Mary Sue fan fics because of that. (I'll leave it as an exercise for the commenters to argue whether or not The Doctor should ever be played by a woman.)<br /><br />Thank you for your insightful post.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2110306069817949473.post-40057299318664200512013-07-22T09:28:31.711+10:002013-07-22T09:28:31.711+10:00I don't think I could manage younger reader bo...I don't think I could manage younger reader books - they're quite difficult! Diana Wynne Jones has a couple of young reader books, but otherwise consider investigating Jane Yolen.Andrea K Hösthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01535131780314094508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2110306069817949473.post-55736544936250238602013-07-22T08:49:51.742+10:002013-07-22T08:49:51.742+10:00I recommend it. It abounds in nifty, unexpected ch...I recommend it. It abounds in nifty, unexpected characters.<br /><br />Have you, by any chance, written anything for younger children? Jade (now almost 3) loves Disney princess books, but they're awfully dull to read.shellshearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11121383687317507147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2110306069817949473.post-15063741937061873052013-07-21T20:43:35.231+10:002013-07-21T20:43:35.231+10:00I mainly know of Adventure Time through my Tumblr ...I mainly know of Adventure Time through my Tumblr feed. I'll have to get a DVD some time, since it sounds worth watching.Andrea K Hösthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01535131780314094508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2110306069817949473.post-77263441403707278272013-07-21T20:32:41.845+10:002013-07-21T20:32:41.845+10:00That is really insightful - the Marty Stus are so ...That is really insightful - the Marty Stus are so baked into the stories that they escape attention while fear of Mary Sue characters prevents people from ever changing the status quo. Doubly damned.<br /><br />By the way, do you follow Adventure Time at all? Princess Bubblegum and Marceline are terrific.shellshearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11121383687317507147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2110306069817949473.post-62829203372524367632013-07-21T19:26:31.928+10:002013-07-21T19:26:31.928+10:00The last two seasons of Who haven't worked for...The last two seasons of Who haven't worked for me at all.Andrea K Hösthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01535131780314094508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2110306069817949473.post-14136262615250449772013-07-21T19:12:45.965+10:002013-07-21T19:12:45.965+10:00Hmm...maybe its not just nostalgain that makes me ...Hmm...maybe its not just nostalgain that makes me like the old Dr Who more than the new seasons. The newer ones are more Mary Sue-y. And you have a good point regarding Mary Sues in male dominated shows.Jennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12909466417710679436noreply@blogger.com